tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5134782302655515338.post3188148363785876925..comments2023-12-25T05:12:46.199+01:00Comments on ORA ET LABORA: Living Icons, Chapter 5Felix Culpahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18062279686869827534noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5134782302655515338.post-33153127562679022012010-05-04T23:32:28.375+02:002010-05-04T23:32:28.375+02:00I've only read a few of Fr Lev's works, an...I've only read a few of Fr Lev's works, and found them deeply frustrating. He writes well, is genuinely erudite, but always manages to mix in suspect elements. I've never read his commentary on the Liturgy.Felix Culpahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18062279686869827534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5134782302655515338.post-13991188738658367352010-05-03T14:34:32.527+02:002010-05-03T14:34:32.527+02:00Thank you, Mary, for your honesty AND your admissi...Thank you, Mary, for your honesty AND your admission of harshness. Perhaps I was partly to blame. I did not mean to say that St Mark has definitively drawn the lines between Orthodoxy & Catholicism (I simply don't know enough about Catholicism to say what would constitute a definitive response to it--it seems to be a rather slippery thing), only that St Mark has drawn the lines in terms of what is acceptable within <i>our</i> Church. I'm not telling you what Catholic teaching is, only what Orthodox teaching is. Certainly, it is not Orthodox to advocate union with Rome without any change or repentance on their part, to pretend as though the Schism never happened, as Fr Plekon says. If St Mark is a Saint speaking with the voice of Orthodoxy, then it would be in contradiction for us to give similar status to Fr Plekon if the latter remains entranched in such idiosyncratic opinions.Aaron Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17775589009145031773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5134782302655515338.post-42126653459791223192010-05-03T13:49:40.257+02:002010-05-03T13:49:40.257+02:00I looked at my last note here and it is too harsh....I looked at my last note here and it is too harsh. It does not convey my interest in you and other traditionalists which is that I have great empathy for your fundamental desires and positions. We are kin in some strange fashion.<br /><br />But when I hear you say that the "lines have been drawn" I want to rip my hair out because when I hear critics of the west telling me what Catholic teaching is, I do not recognize it.<br /><br />And if THAT is where the line MUST be drawn then it is not real and it is fundamentally not honest.<br /><br />That is what I fuss about and that is what drives me to talk back.<br /><br />M.Elijahmariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13278394189405309838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5134782302655515338.post-14391320888269886612010-05-03T03:50:10.132+02:002010-05-03T03:50:10.132+02:00I've read translations of what we have from Fe...I've read translations of what we have from Ferrara-Florence in Father Joe Gill's history over and over again. And the Latins would say one thing and Bishop Mark would feed back something slightly different, and the Latins would say no that's not what we mean nor what we say and Bishop Mark would repeat himself and on and on. <br /><br />Is that what constitutes good theological form...You just ignore what the other fellow says and revise it for them and insist that it is truth? I think your line in the sand has a couple of breaks in it. Not as firm as you'd wish.<br /><br />I'll tell you one thing, you fellows need to get on the horn and make it very clear that Orthodoxy cannot work with the Catholic Church on moral issues.<br /><br />You cannot separate doctrinal integrity from moral integrity and truth and we are just too far out to be of any use to Orthodoxy at all. <br /><br />I cringe when it is suggested by Orthodox that it would be possible to do work with us. I just don't see it...IF we are that far off doctrinally.<br /><br />M.Elijahmariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13278394189405309838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5134782302655515338.post-48673358278238756082010-05-03T02:15:15.348+02:002010-05-03T02:15:15.348+02:00Ah, but while you may not, the Orthodox Church doe...Ah, but while you may not, the Orthodox Church does indeed accept St Mark's defense against the Latins, seeing it not as extreme, but precisely as an expression of the Orthodox Faith. That being the case, Fr Plekon's idiosyncracies can never be so accepted. The lines have been drawn.Aaron Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17775589009145031773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5134782302655515338.post-60148447695071877252010-05-02T23:47:09.826+02:002010-05-02T23:47:09.826+02:00It is numerically possible that at some point Fath...It is numerically possible that at some point Father Michael will represent the truth of Orthodoxy in the US, an extreme that I would rather not see, any more than I accept that St. Mark represents any kind of defense against the Latins that is anything but extreme, and somewhat skewed away from Latin reality. <br /><br />So what I am really saying is that I hope someday we'll look for the truth between two extremes.<br /><br />M.Elijahmariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13278394189405309838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5134782302655515338.post-14042675687327812212010-05-02T07:01:48.516+02:002010-05-02T07:01:48.516+02:00Sorry, Mary, but I don't see how Fr Michael ca...Sorry, Mary, but I don't see how Fr Michael can be compared to St Mark of Ephesus. You'll have to explain yourself a bit!Aaron Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17775589009145031773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5134782302655515338.post-38272978520323978172010-05-02T06:26:43.385+02:002010-05-02T06:26:43.385+02:00Father, what do you think of Fr. Lev's works? ...Father, what do you think of Fr. Lev's works? I've only read his commentary on the Liturgy, which I thought was pretty good.John Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09245365635360011009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5134782302655515338.post-88649676863275697452010-05-02T03:18:34.080+02:002010-05-02T03:18:34.080+02:00Perhaps history will one day recognize Father Mich...Perhaps history will one day recognize Father Michael as a latter day St. Mark of Ephesus. And then the truth will fall, as it usually does between two extremes.<br /><br />MaryElijahmariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13278394189405309838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5134782302655515338.post-33542792542618406872010-05-02T00:40:57.923+02:002010-05-02T00:40:57.923+02:00This Fr Plekon is sounding less and less Orthodox ...This Fr Plekon is sounding less and less Orthodox altogether.Aaron Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17775589009145031773noreply@blogger.com