tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5134782302655515338.post5082599080801415371..comments2023-12-25T05:12:46.199+01:00Comments on ORA ET LABORA: Holiness or Democracy?Felix Culpahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18062279686869827534noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5134782302655515338.post-20690553563724703672011-11-08T00:20:49.825+01:002011-11-08T00:20:49.825+01:00Have any churches actually been destroyed in Kosov...Have any churches actually been destroyed in Kosovo? Or has anyone threatened to destroy them? If not, is it responsible to fuel such fears? It is a pity to place holiness in opposition to tolerance. Why can they not be reconciled? Are holy places not desecrated when people of different faiths fight over them? And why consider tolerance a purely modern virtue? Was religious tolerance not practiced in certain ancient civilizations (Khazaria, for instance)?Stephen Shenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16024819753079639791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5134782302655515338.post-58800335090034713612008-02-27T02:49:00.000+01:002008-02-27T02:49:00.000+01:00thanks for the recommendation, I own Diogenes Alle...thanks for the recommendation, I own Diogenes Allen's book. Splendid work too. <BR/><BR/>It is true as I have found how important it is for Western theology to understand philosophy (as my studies in Aquinas, Lonergan, and my sporadic readings in Protestant and Catholic theology shows me). <BR/><BR/>What about some of the "Parisian" school? The influence of German idealism on Bulgakov. (Which I do not agree with). But again I guess that is for specialists. <BR/><BR/>I know Aristotle's 4 causes, how could you read Thomistic theology without some knowledge of Aristotle. :)Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12462791786546752315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5134782302655515338.post-34223775420826882612008-02-27T00:38:00.000+01:002008-02-27T00:38:00.000+01:00It also occurs to me that a knowledge of philosoph...It also occurs to me that a knowledge of philosophy (from classical through post-modern) is essential for an understanding of western theology (say, beginning with Aquinas), but less so for eastern theology.<BR/><BR/>Incidentally, a really helpful primer is Diogenes Allen, "Philosophy for Students of Theology.' There is also a companion volume with a compilation of primary sources.Felix Culpahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18062279686869827534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5134782302655515338.post-14403452238495570742008-02-27T00:34:00.000+01:002008-02-27T00:34:00.000+01:00Bradshaw's work, which I very much respect, has to...Bradshaw's work, which I very much respect, has to do largely with tracing certain ideas (such as "energia") from its philosophical foundations through the Fathers. For that, naturally, one would need to have a solid grounding in Aristotle. Bradshaw's point is certainly a valid one.<BR/><BR/>One of the dangers, though, of reading the Fathers through the lenses of classical philosophy is that one risks reading them largely as continuations of philosophical schools, hence all the ink that's been spilled arguing whether one Father or another is a neo-Platonist or not. For instance, if one goes into Dionysius with Plotinus in mind, one can't help but read him with a significant bias.<BR/><BR/>I can only think of one important patristic text I've spent any time with for which a grasp of classical philosophy is essential, and that's St Basil's 'On the Holy Spirit,' which can't be understood without some knowledge of Aristotle's Four Causes -- although, even there a careful read of the relevant Wiki article would suffice. <BR/><BR/>I'm certainly all for an immersion in Plato, Aristotle, and Plotinus (Homer, too, since he's the literary touchstone of many of the Fathers). Were there but time and world enough, I'd love to spend much more time with them. But, given our lack of both time and world, I think it reasonable to go directly to the Fathers, and learn as much classical philosophy as is needed to understand them along the way.Felix Culpahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18062279686869827534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5134782302655515338.post-49848242814988073782008-02-27T00:06:00.000+01:002008-02-27T00:06:00.000+01:00Interesting comment about ancient philosophy and u...Interesting comment about ancient philosophy and understanding the Fathers. I hadn't really seriously contemplated spending too much time on Plato, Aristotle, and Plotinus much until David Bradshaw (Aristotle East and West?, I'm sure you've heard of him) told me that he sees a lot of sloppy work done by theologians in trying to understand the philosophical language that some of the Fathers employ.<BR/><BR/>So that is where I got that influence from. I guess it kind of depends on what you are wanting to focus on in your studies in the Fathers?Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12462791786546752315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5134782302655515338.post-79707179850997833602008-02-26T23:47:00.000+01:002008-02-26T23:47:00.000+01:00Once upon a time I seriously considered doing a de...Once upon a time I seriously considered doing a degree at the U of D's Braniff College, since they have a Great Books based doctoral program. Its political philosophy section is dominated by Straussians, and its philosophy section by Thomists; I'm not sure about the literature section.<BR/><BR/>Personally I think the importance of studying ancient philosophy as a stepping stone to the Fathers tends to be vastly overemphasized. That particular prejudice springs in large part from the fact that many English patrologists received their training in Classics, and thus insisted on it as a prerequisite to theology.Felix Culpahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18062279686869827534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5134782302655515338.post-57167537603008753332008-02-26T23:38:00.000+01:002008-02-26T23:38:00.000+01:00I have looked at that program. I have also looked ...I have looked at that program. I have also looked @ University of Dallas' program (focusing on ancient philosophy) in order to aid me in further studies in the Fathers.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the heads up though!Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12462791786546752315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5134782302655515338.post-26624176085566947902008-02-26T23:04:00.000+01:002008-02-26T23:04:00.000+01:00You should consider the Graduate Institute at St J...You should consider the Graduate Institute at St John's College. It's four semesters, which don't have to be consecutive. That is, you can finish it by doing four in a row, taking about a year and a half, or you can do it two semester a year, in two years, or four summers, etc. It's the ideal remedial solution, allowing you to read both more widely and deeply than most colleges allow.<BR/><BR/>Joe Sachs, by the way, is a tutor at the Annapolis campus.<BR/><BR/>Check out the website: www.sjca.eduFelix Culpahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18062279686869827534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5134782302655515338.post-52607175698622456942008-02-26T22:58:00.000+01:002008-02-26T22:58:00.000+01:00I have read sections that were deemed necessary. A...I have read sections that were deemed necessary. <BR/>And I agree with you, I have been defrauded. I wish I had gone to a school like St. John's or Thomas Aquinas, or something along those lines. But alas I did not. I spent two years at a small Bible college (I do have a deep grasp of the Bible) where I realized after writing a paper on Kierkegaard that my teachers did not know anything about philosophy. And then two and half years at a state school in Kentucky. And now I am working on the education I should have recieved.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12462791786546752315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5134782302655515338.post-58331096830257206962008-02-26T22:52:00.000+01:002008-02-26T22:52:00.000+01:00A college degree without Plato's Republic?! You've...A college degree without Plato's Republic?! You've been defrauded!<BR/><BR/>The best translation for some time has been Allan Bloom's, though Joe Sach's new translation also looks excellent.Felix Culpahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18062279686869827534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5134782302655515338.post-71389270920594246512008-02-26T22:33:00.000+01:002008-02-26T22:33:00.000+01:00What a telling critique of democracy from Plato. W...What a telling critique of democracy from Plato. <BR/><BR/>Which reminds me yet again that I need to read the Republic. <BR/><BR/>I am going to have the chance to hear some Serbians speak about Kosovo in Chicago in a few days. I am anxious to hear what they have to say.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12462791786546752315noreply@blogger.com